<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Blinded By Hysteria About &#8220;Socialized Medicine&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=9256" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256</link>
	<description>Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:40:54 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218766</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218766</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Ron, I know pills don&#039;t always do what you want.  But there really is a Puritan streak about some of the &quot;get out there and exercise&quot; bit.  Or maybe it&#039;s just living in the Seattle area that exposes me to more of that.  There are a lot of people here who run on smug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Ron, I know pills don&#8217;t always do what you want.  But there really is a Puritan streak about some of the &#8220;get out there and exercise&#8221; bit.  Or maybe it&#8217;s just living in the Seattle area that exposes me to more of that.  There are a lot of people here who run on smug.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Chusid</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218760</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Chusid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218760</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Fritz,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is not just the Puritan line that says that often diet and exercise is preferable to taking a pill. Pills will not always substitute for the benefits of diet and exercise. (It might be the Puritan line to argue as someone did above to claim that all problems are due to people failing to diet and exercise enough).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Still, you do show that we will still need the pharmaceutical industry. Even if it were the case that diet and exercise would solve all medical problems, plenty of people will still require medications as they will not follow diets and exercise programs.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fritz,</p>
<p>It is not just the Puritan line that says that often diet and exercise is preferable to taking a pill. Pills will not always substitute for the benefits of diet and exercise. (It might be the Puritan line to argue as someone did above to claim that all problems are due to people failing to diet and exercise enough).</p>
<p>Still, you do show that we will still need the pharmaceutical industry. Even if it were the case that diet and exercise would solve all medical problems, plenty of people will still require medications as they will not follow diets and exercise programs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218756</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218756</guid>
		<description>I would much rather take a pill than diet.  I don&#039;t find a moral good in either dieting or doing boring exercise (physical activity I enjoy is an entirely different matter).  People who think it is a moral failing that I want to take a pill and continue to eat heartily have swallowed the Puritan line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would much rather take a pill than diet.  I don&#8217;t find a moral good in either dieting or doing boring exercise (physical activity I enjoy is an entirely different matter).  People who think it is a moral failing that I want to take a pill and continue to eat heartily have swallowed the Puritan line.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Chusid</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218752</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Chusid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218752</guid>
		<description>Diet and exercise will help many people but it is not the cure. We still need pharmaceutical R&amp;D. I just don&#039;t buy that it will dry up and the pharmaceutical companies will decide to give up this business, even if profits are less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diet and exercise will help many people but it is not the cure. We still need pharmaceutical R&#038;D. I just don&#8217;t buy that it will dry up and the pharmaceutical companies will decide to give up this business, even if profits are less.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jake S.</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218749</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218749</guid>
		<description>All this worry about R&amp;D drying up? I don&#039;t know guys, how many more friggen drugs to we need to treat heart disease, erectile dysfunction, and insomnia when the obvious cure for all three is DIET and EXCERCISE?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this worry about R&amp;D drying up? I don&#8217;t know guys, how many more friggen drugs to we need to treat heart disease, erectile dysfunction, and insomnia when the obvious cure for all three is DIET and EXCERCISE?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218742</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218742</guid>
		<description>RE: Fritz, you wrote an intelligent argument that cites real facts and issues. The anti-reform hysteria that dominates the debate does not; that is the massive hurdle we have to overcome before we can begin to debate the logistics and details that we&#039;d all like to discuss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Fritz, you wrote an intelligent argument that cites real facts and issues. The anti-reform hysteria that dominates the debate does not; that is the massive hurdle we have to overcome before we can begin to debate the logistics and details that we&#8217;d all like to discuss.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218718</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218718</guid>
		<description>Ron, I&#039;m sorry -- most people who decry pharma advertising to layfolk want the practice to be banned.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, I&#8217;m sorry &#8212; most people who decry pharma advertising to layfolk want the practice to be banned.   </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Chusid</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218716</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Chusid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218716</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Fritz,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I never said pharmaceutical companies should be legally barred from advertising. The point is that this leaves the pharmaceutical companies a place to cut costs if government programs pay them less without having to give up research and development.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fritz,</p>
<p>I never said pharmaceutical companies should be legally barred from advertising. The point is that this leaves the pharmaceutical companies a place to cut costs if government programs pay them less without having to give up research and development.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218715</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218715</guid>
		<description>Ron, why do you think that pharma companies, if they are legally barred from spending money on advertising their current products, will thben spend more money on research to develop more products that they will not be allowed to promote?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, why do you think that pharma companies, if they are legally barred from spending money on advertising their current products, will thben spend more money on research to develop more products that they will not be allowed to promote?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218711</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218711</guid>
		<description>Ron, I think even more of their effort will go to lifestyle drugs, since there will be less pressure to contain costs there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, I think even more of their effort will go to lifestyle drugs, since there will be less pressure to contain costs there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Chusid</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218707</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Chusid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218707</guid>
		<description>From a libertarian perspective I can understand the argment to allow people to be allowed to take their own risks if they are the ones to suffer the consequences. On the other hand, I see on a daily basis the types of misconceptions people have about their medications (often after looking up things on line) and the harm that can be done when prescription medications are not adequately monitored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a libertarian perspective I can understand the argment to allow people to be allowed to take their own risks if they are the ones to suffer the consequences. On the other hand, I see on a daily basis the types of misconceptions people have about their medications (often after looking up things on line) and the harm that can be done when prescription medications are not adequately monitored.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218706</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218706</guid>
		<description>I did say &quot;development and testing&quot;.  Much research is paid for by tax dollars and then given to Pharma.  Which is also objectionable.

Of course I would like fewer drugs to be perscription only -- that should be restricted IMO to those drugs that cause community damage when misused (perhaps antibiotics).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did say &#8220;development and testing&#8221;.  Much research is paid for by tax dollars and then given to Pharma.  Which is also objectionable.</p>
<p>Of course I would like fewer drugs to be perscription only &#8212; that should be restricted IMO to those drugs that cause community damage when misused (perhaps antibiotics).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Chusid</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218702</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Chusid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218702</guid>
		<description>That argument, while often raised by opponents of health care reform, is a pretty weak argument. Much of the money for research in this country comes from government and health care reform will not change that. If anything, allowing the government to save money from much of cost-shifting which increases Medicare costs, which would occur if we had less uninsured, would free up more money for research. 

Pharmaceutical companies will still perform research in order to remain in business. There is plenty of room to cut drug costs while still leaving plenty of money for research. They spend far more on marketing than research, with the best estimates showing they spend about almost twice as much on promotion as they do on research and development. It would be a good thing if drug companies had less to spend to try to influence physicians, and a good thing if they stopped direct to consumer marketing of prescription drugs. They could even survive and continue research with less profits than they now make if necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That argument, while often raised by opponents of health care reform, is a pretty weak argument. Much of the money for research in this country comes from government and health care reform will not change that. If anything, allowing the government to save money from much of cost-shifting which increases Medicare costs, which would occur if we had less uninsured, would free up more money for research. </p>
<p>Pharmaceutical companies will still perform research in order to remain in business. There is plenty of room to cut drug costs while still leaving plenty of money for research. They spend far more on marketing than research, with the best estimates showing they spend about almost twice as much on promotion as they do on research and development. It would be a good thing if drug companies had less to spend to try to influence physicians, and a good thing if they stopped direct to consumer marketing of prescription drugs. They could even survive and continue research with less profits than they now make if necessary.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Chusid</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218701</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Chusid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218701</guid>
		<description>&quot;It can be argued that the problem is not overly stringent FD regulations...&quot;

Or from the perspective of discussing the issue, the problem is adhering to ideological positions and talking points without looking at the specifics. Libertarians generalize with talking points (always anti-government) such as that the problem with the FDA is keeping drugs from market as they are more likely to be blamed for problems while nobody knows about those who suffer from drugs not being approved.

Like many libertarian talking points on government and the economy it has a grain of truth which get people to continue to repeat it but the line is a gross over-simplification. Sometimes drugs are kept off the market too long. Other times drugs get on the market which should not. Fritz&#039;s take on the talking point that &quot;People who die because a new drug is still in testing are just, well, dead&quot; misses the fact that the FDA cannot just keep drugs off the market without anyone realizing that drug might have been used as we do have information on drugs which are in the pipeline and we do have information about drugs which have been approved in other countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It can be argued that the problem is not overly stringent FD regulations&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Or from the perspective of discussing the issue, the problem is adhering to ideological positions and talking points without looking at the specifics. Libertarians generalize with talking points (always anti-government) such as that the problem with the FDA is keeping drugs from market as they are more likely to be blamed for problems while nobody knows about those who suffer from drugs not being approved.</p>
<p>Like many libertarian talking points on government and the economy it has a grain of truth which get people to continue to repeat it but the line is a gross over-simplification. Sometimes drugs are kept off the market too long. Other times drugs get on the market which should not. Fritz&#8217;s take on the talking point that &#8220;People who die because a new drug is still in testing are just, well, dead&#8221; misses the fact that the FDA cannot just keep drugs off the market without anyone realizing that drug might have been used as we do have information on drugs which are in the pipeline and we do have information about drugs which have been approved in other countries.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fritz</title>
		<link>http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256&#038;cpage=1#comment-218700</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9256#comment-218700</guid>
		<description>I am wondering where the money will come from for development and testing as health care dollars tighten.  Even without single-payer, it is clear that health-care providers will get exemption from anti-trust rules so that they can force cheaper prices from Big Pharma -- getting closer to COGS. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wondering where the money will come from for development and testing as health care dollars tighten.  Even without single-payer, it is clear that health-care providers will get exemption from anti-trust rules so that they can force cheaper prices from Big Pharma &#8212; getting closer to COGS. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
