Comments on: In Their Usual Corners http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9252 Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:46:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Eclectic Radical http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9252&cpage=1#comment-218699 Eclectic Radical Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:37:42 +0000 http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9252#comment-218699 Well, the failure of communism in practice was as much because communist principles were never actually properly applied to the Soviet experiment as it was that utopian communist principles were deeply mistaken about basic human nature. The doctrine most damaging to the Soviet Union was not Marxist at all, but one Trotsky borrowed from Rousseau's writings about democracy... that the final will of the people, expressed by the state, was more important than the individual rights of citizens. This theory was adopted by the French and Bolshevik revolutions with disastrous consequences.   It was also shared by Jefferson, who believed that pure democracy would always lead to the correct and moral decision and that the resulting will of the people was more important than any other consideration of rights or equality.   I am not trying to argue in favor of communist economic or political systems, I consider Marxism, syndicalism, anarcho-socialism, and anarcho-communism to all be impossible to implement. However, the NFL, Saturn (before GM purchased it back from the employees), various agricultural cooperatives, and some other examples have shown that 'communist' ownership structures can function very well in a capitalist economy.   Eurocommunism in France, Germany, and Scandinavia has shown that socialist principles can be very useful in a fundamentally capitalist and democratic economic and political setting.     Well, the failure of communism in practice was as much because communist principles were never actually properly applied to the Soviet experiment as it was that utopian communist principles were deeply mistaken about basic human nature. The doctrine most damaging to the Soviet Union was not Marxist at all, but one Trotsky borrowed from Rousseau’s writings about democracy… that the final will of the people, expressed by the state, was more important than the individual rights of citizens. This theory was adopted by the French and Bolshevik revolutions with disastrous consequences.
 
It was also shared by Jefferson, who believed that pure democracy would always lead to the correct and moral decision and that the resulting will of the people was more important than any other consideration of rights or equality.
 
I am not trying to argue in favor of communist economic or political systems, I consider Marxism, syndicalism, anarcho-socialism, and anarcho-communism to all be impossible to implement. However, the NFL, Saturn (before GM purchased it back from the employees), various agricultural cooperatives, and some other examples have shown that ‘communist’ ownership structures can function very well in a capitalist economy.
 
Eurocommunism in France, Germany, and Scandinavia has shown that socialist principles can be very useful in a fundamentally capitalist and democratic economic and political setting.
 
 

]]> By: Ron Chusid http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9252&cpage=1#comment-218690 Ron Chusid Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:01:14 +0000 http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9252#comment-218690 <p>While I would tilt more towards capitalism than Communism in its true utopian form, neither can be taken as a religion. While adherence to Communism was far more dangerous than adherence to total laissez-faire capitalism, I agree neither can apply as a true law of nature.</p> <p>Capitalism generally works, but for markets to work there needs to be some regulation. In some cases, such as health care, free markets create problems which must be addressed.</p> While I would tilt more towards capitalism than Communism in its true utopian form, neither can be taken as a religion. While adherence to Communism was far more dangerous than adherence to total laissez-faire capitalism, I agree neither can apply as a true law of nature.

Capitalism generally works, but for markets to work there needs to be some regulation. In some cases, such as health care, free markets create problems which must be addressed.

]]> By: Eclectic Radical http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9252&cpage=1#comment-218689 Eclectic Radical Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:50:05 +0000 http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=9252#comment-218689 The problem is that there really are no genuine 'economic laws.' There are economic tendencies which have value when studied and remembered, but they must be applied on a case by case basis because 'markets' are not real entities, merely collections of disparate individuals with competing goals whose motivations and ethical decisions are variable. Classical capitalism would function perfectly if people really knew their best interest at all times, communism would function perfectly if people really were altruistic and fair-minded in nature, anarcho-capitalism might function to some degree if classical capitalism really worked the way it is supposed to.   I'm a strong advocate of capitalist economic structure, but also of socialist government policy. There really needs to be a balance between the ability of the economy to generate wealth and the ability to society to use that wealth to provide for its needs.   The problem is that there really are no genuine ‘economic laws.’ There are economic tendencies which have value when studied and remembered, but they must be applied on a case by case basis because ‘markets’ are not real entities, merely collections of disparate individuals with competing goals whose motivations and ethical decisions are variable. Classical capitalism would function perfectly if people really knew their best interest at all times, communism would function perfectly if people really were altruistic and fair-minded in nature, anarcho-capitalism might function to some degree if classical capitalism really worked the way it is supposed to.
 
I’m a strong advocate of capitalist economic structure, but also of socialist government policy. There really needs to be a balance between the ability of the economy to generate wealth and the ability to society to use that wealth to provide for its needs.
 

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