Comments on: Conservatives Discover Separation of Church and State

By: J Edward

J Edward — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:16:34 +0000

However Jefferson made a copy of the New Testament that removed anything not said by Jesus. He regarded the philosophy of Jesus to be the most sublime philosophy extant. Yet he decried what had been done to it by “priestcraft and kingcraft” Imagine what Jefferson would have to say about TV preachers.

By: JeffM

JeffM — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:04:13 +0000

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man. -Thomas Jefferson

By: David W.

David W. — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:08:38 +0000

Fritz. Not to be snarky, just a correction. The debate between Patrick Henry, who introduced a bill to fund all Christian sects, and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, which led to the passage of the Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom, occurred in 1785-1786. The first debates on establishing the Constitution began in May, 1787 and concluded in September of that year. The proposed document was then sent to the states for further debate and ratification. It wasn’t until 1789 that Madison proposed the first draft of the first amendment, because of concerns in the state assemblies that the government would usurp state and personal rights. Thus, the debate you are talking about occurred several years before the first amendment was proposed. Small correction.

By: Ron Chusid

Ron Chusid — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:20:18 +0000

True, you can’t lump them together. As with anything passed by a legislative body, there were people on different sides with regards to the issues back then. That’s also what I was insinuating with the comment on John Adams.

By: Fritz

Fritz — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:44:29 +0000

Yeah, I only meant that you can’t lump them all together. Any group that includes both Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry is going to be a tad divergent. And then there is Tom Paine.

I’m more of a Tom Paine type.

By: Ron Chusid

Ron Chusid — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:18:00 +0000

Fritz,

Separation of church and state, along with other Constitutional liberties, did not extend to the state government until the 14th Amendment. Initially we had separation of church and state with regards to the federal but not state governments. Thomas Jefferson most definitely did consider the First Amendment to support separation of church and state.

By: Fritz

Fritz — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:14:41 +0000

It is factually incorrect to state that the “Founding Fathers” believed in the separation of church and state. Patrick Henry tried to create a VA state tax to fund churches. Thomas Jefferson (among many others) opposed it. Neither thought the First Amendment to the Federal constitution had any bearing on the issue.

It is amusing to me that the Vatican is comfortable with their current path. I am old enough (and was raised Catholic) to remember how stridently hands-off the priesthood was during the 1960 election.

The only appropriate action for a pro-choice or pro-gay-rights Catholic to take is to not feed the beast.

By: Eclectic Radical

Eclectic Radical — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:01:55 +0000

The Connecticut state issue is actually a result of the conservative attacks on the separation of church and state on several levels. Most notably, it is a direct result of the conservative trend in Catholic leadership over the last decade or so and their increasingly aggressive bid to bring American Catholics ‘to heel’ in the dogmatic and political sense.

Conservative bishops, with the support of the pope, have been denying sacraments to pro-choice and/or pro-gay-rights politicians. Some liberals see this as a blatant attempt by the church to interfere in the working of the state through ecclesiastical means, in Connecticut they are hitting back with the machinery of government. It’s all a very dirty, petty, unappealing squabble in which the really important issues are being lost.

I support liberal Catholics at odd with the leadership of the Church, but this is ridiculous. Church issues must be addressed in the Church, they will not be solved by a resort to authoritarian government measures.

By: Barry

Barry — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:45:38 +0000

Libs. and Cons. vs. 1st Amendment:

http://abcdunlimited.com/ideas/church-n-state.html