Conservativism and Fascism

The blog war of the week is between Andrew Sullivan and Johah Goldberg on whether conservatives are fascists. To be exact, conservatives are not fascists, although they share many common traits. While Sullivan might technically be incorrect if he calls conservatives fascists, he wins the debate with Goldberg in showing some of the authoritarian traits of conservativism while Goldberg has no meaningful rebuttal. Sullivan wrote:

What American ‘conservatism’ has become fits closely within the definition of fascism: an intensely nationalist movement intent on defining membership in the ‘nation’ on linguistic, religious, and (increasingly) ethnic/racial criteria, accompanied by an unquestioning loyalty to (male) authority, enshrined in family leaders, business leaders, religious leaders, and especially, the leader of the nation, who is seen as embodying the Nation. Loyalty to the Party or Movement and its ideology is of great importance. Violence is the preferred means of accomplishing goals. Diplomacy, compromise, negotiation, are all identified with (feminine) weakness. The rule of law is also despised, because it lacks the immediacy of (violent) action, and its emphasis on balance and its concern with proper procedure is also seen as a sign of (feminine) weakness.

This is the outcome of the bargain the GOP made with the Devil back when it decided to go for the Wallace voters after the ’68 and ’72 elections. Kevin Phillips has repented a hundred times over for counseling the Southern Strategy, but too late. The GOP has discovered that when you sell your soul to the Devil, the only question is when does the Devil come to collect? Well, he’s come.

There are many other valid comparisons between fascism and modern conservativism which Sullivan left out, but this is only one blog post and he has addressed some of the others at other times. In conservativism we see manipulation of public opinion with mass propaganda. We see militarism, even when their military adventures ultimately undermine our national security. Creating a state of perpetual warfare has become more important than the effects of their adventures. The collusion between business and political leaders seen under the Republicans is also more a characteristic of fascism than capitalism, while the conservative propaganda machine labels those who support a restoration of capitalism as “socialists.”

Goldberg responds by arguing that “the conservative base is braying about how Bush has betrayed them and the party has lost its way” for his support of the immigration bill. Conservatives, who have generally backed Bush regardless of the damage he has done to the country, and regardless of his authoritarian policies, have placed their xenophobia above following Bush on this one matter. That’s hardly a meaningful defense of the authoritarian right.

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20 Comments

  1. 1
    Anti Tikkun Olam says:

    Hmm, Sullivan is a pro-war jewish homosexual, Johah Goldberg is another pro-war jew. Both hate “fascism”, therefore, Bush’s war to please homosexual jews is not “fascist”.

    And what we are seeing in our government is neither “conservatism”, nor “fascism”, but Judaism and Shabbos goyery.

    “(fascism is) an intensely nationalist movement intent on defining membership in the ‘nation’ on linguistic, religious, and (increasingly) ethnic/racial criteria.”

    Two jews define ‘nation’ in quotes, signifying in some way that ‘nation’ does not exist, that in their typical jewish words “it’s an artificial construct”. Before they attach a bunch of evil riders to this fascist ‘nation’, the goyish truth of the matter is what makes a nation is its linguistic, religious, and ethnic/racial commonality and common history.

    The jews believe in such non-sense, “Everyone on earth is an American” “if we only bomb to liberate them, or instantly make them a citizen”. The jews support worldwide unfascist tollerant-bloodshed. Tikkum-Olam. It goes to show how much they believe in Government of the People. Americans make America, or were supposed to. Democracy is the way we live and yes, part of it comes from our ethnicity. And it’s not something that is imposed on us. These jews confuse democracy with capitalist-oligarchy that serves the jews so well.

  2. 2
    Ron Chusid says:

    I guess that, in response to any debate, there can be additional viewpoints which make both sides in the debate appear even more rational.

  3. 3
    hogweed says:

    ATO:

    For your next anti-semitic tirade, please try to get at least your characters correct. If you had read anything that Sullivan has written, you would know that he is Catholic, not Jewish.

    But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good tirade?

  4. 4
    David says:

    Good post, and good points by you and by Andrew Sullivan. My only quibble is that I interpret the quotes Andrew places around the world ‘conservative’ to mean that he’s referring to people who claim to be conservatives, and who adhere to a few conservative principles, but who also adopt behaviors and beliefs that are manifestly fascist. He seems not to be saying that people who truly are conservatives are becoming fascist. He seems to be saying that “American conservatives” are becoming fascist.

    Personally, I am so, so, grateful to Andrew and you and people like you for these observations. More than any other challenge facing America, I fear the rise of fascism, whose scent I first detected in the air as far back as 1999.

  5. 5
    Anti Tikkun Olam says:

    Two pro-war, pro-bloodshed, and pro-torture, capitalist Israel first neocons deride “fascists” that curb their civil liberties to engage in war, bloodshed and torture.

    Therefore I conclude that “fascism” is correct, “fascism” is humane, and “fascism” is anti-imperialist.

    What makes Pat Buchanan worse then Norman Podhoretz? One is a Holy JEW, and it’s “anti-semitic” to ever question his megalomaniacal plan for world domination, or to stop him from carrying it out in his Tikkum Olam.

    While one insists that nation (ethnos) is defined, as it has always been pre-WTO and judeocapitalism run amok: on “linguistic, religious, ethnic/racial criteria”, and from that naturally doesn’t advocate “Tollerant Genocide”, “Spreading freedom”, or “creative destruction”.

    Tell me who’s worse? It’s gotta be the GOY right? You statists make me sick.

  6. 6
    Ron Chusid says:

    Anti Tikkum Olam,

    Questioning and disagreeing with specific political beliefs is not anti-Semitic. Spreading the meme that the war is a plot from Jewish neocons alone does expose your bigotry.

    “You statists make me sick.”

    We are the ones opposing the trend towards greater statism and towards fascism under the authoritarian right.

  7. 7
    Anti Tikkun Olam says:

    Yes, “Authoritarian” right vs. the tollerant, pro-torture, pro-war, “freedom-state” right of Bush.

    People who want to keep a homogeneous society based on kith and kin are somehow more evil. All I know is that its harder for usurist paracites to survive in a kith and kin based environment.

  8. 8
    Ron Chusid says:

    Bush, the pro-war/pro-torture people, and the authoritarian right are generally the same people. And yes, bigots like you are often even worse.

  9. 9
    citizen says:

    its not a facist authoritarian right when the vast majority of americans can protest openly and speek freely about there hate 4 this president. how many people u know where arrested 4 drugs or any other crime not relaterd to terrorism under patriot act,. none.this is a free country were u can go on line and spew all kinds of anti american hate say its fact and its ok. People should look at the real countries who actually supress and kill there people to keep control.like china and iran north korea most all the middle east and africa. not america witch is the country wich invented true freedom 4 the average joe to bill gates. compaired to most other countries. there is no arguement. point your anger at the real problems on our planet.

  10. 10
    Ron Chusid says:

    Citizen, 

    Note I started out the post saying, “To be exact, conservatives are not fascists.” That doesn’t mean that the authoritarian right isn’t moving the country in a direction towards fascism which is worthy of opposition.

    Geoge Bush has acted to undermine the principles of individual liberty, free enterprise, separation of church and state, and limitations on the powers of the Executive Branch which this nation was founded on. These are real problems worthy of pointing anger at.

  11. 11
    citizen says:

    im atheist myself but the constitution protecs all religion to be practiced freely and openly not eraddicated from all public view. its u who are looking at the constitution backwards. sorry about my spelling.

  12. 12
    Ron Chusid says:

    Citizen,

    No, you miss the point. The issue isn’t one of protecting the free practice of religion, which I support. The issue is using the power of government to impose their religious views upon others, which is contrary to the Constitution.

  13. 13
    citizen says:

    the church is well seperated from the state. being christian doesnt mean your using your power to promote one religion. mame me 5 pres that werent christian. when u walk into the capital there are religious symbols and references all over. on our money our pledge everywere. i think u and the left in general go to far with this seperation of church and state thing.out of your blind hate 4 bush. its a non issue.the only thing the republicans do is sterr up the christians to vote 4 them.Just like the dems do with the gays and minorites.so its even. and if we can do it again there are more christians in this country than anything else.we will have a good pres not hillary or gore we will have a gingrich or gulliani or anything else bush got 60 millian votes the most ever. we can repeat with the RIGHT message.

  14. 14
    Ron Chusid says:

    No, being Christian doesn’t mean you’re using the power to promote one religion and nobody has said that it does. The political goals of the religous right with regards to imposing their views is distinct from someone being Christian.

    Bush got 60 million votes, but that was with the advantages of being an incumbent during war time, benefiting from a massive propaganda outfit. Even then, he didn’t beat Kerry by that much. To get elected in the first place, Bush had to pretend to be a “compassionate conservative.”

    Sure, Republicans can with with again with the right message, but that means abandoning the message they have been using since 2001.

  15. 15
    citizen says:

    no he got 60 million votes because the largest voting bloc was motivated to vote 4 him it was only close cause of the hate and propiganda and the flat out indorsment of kerry by 70% of main streem media.no matter what dems do they cant win if christians are motivated to vote

  16. 16
    Ron Chusid says:

    Yet, of those 60 million, a large percentage regret their vote and now identify as Democrats. Repubicans will need to abandon their authoritarian and incompetent ways if they are to win consistently in the future.

  17. 17
    citizen says:

    and dems will need to be stronger in the future. recent history shows republicans message resinates with the majority of americans. dominating elections 4 almost 20 years. only recently they lost.dems have alot of catching up tp do.

  18. 18
    Anti Tikkun Olam says:

    Andrew Sullivan and Johah Goldberg are two pro-war neocons Ron, sure maybe they don’t like the way Bush carried out their glorious grand vision of jewish-will-to-power, but that does not excuse them as the same goons who trumped up the war, called for torture in their “South Park Conservative” outrage at all morality: “What would Jack Bauer Do”, and praised the patriot act, and to add insult to dead troops, advocated the reward America’s blind loyalty and patriotism to the grand-capitalist-war of their creation with SHAFTA/ insane immigration policy; and they’re now only pissed that NOT ENOUGH TROOPS AND NOT ENOUGH AMERICANS ARE DYING TO FILL THEIR WINE GLASSES FAST ENOUGH FOR THEIR VAMPIRIC LUST.

    The point is we’re ingrates, how “fascist” of us.

    How am I worse Ron? I don’t advocate war for the Miltary-Industrial complex and Israel. I don’t plan war for the Miltary-Industrial complex and Israel.

    I advocate a nation based on kith and kin, blood and soil.

    Republicans stress the individual screwing over the herd and charging it interest, miscegenation of the blood and dumping toxic waste into the environment. Republicans, the Sullivans, the Goldbergs, the Chertoffs, and the Bushs are my foremost enemy, as are fake-dissedents to their judeocapitalist nightmare such as yourself and other mainstream liberals.

  19. 19
    Ron Chusid says:

    I’m not normally in the habit of defending Andrew Sullivan, and even less Jonah Goldberg, but as much as I disagree with them on a number of issues, the hatred you express based upon factors such as religion is more despicable. You say you don’t advocate war, but people who advocte hatred such as you generally resort to violence, or at least inciting it in others.

  20. 20
    Anti Tikkun Olam says:

    Violence, violence for justice, as any normal person would agree. Not war at a whim. Not war for stock options.

    Andrew Sullivan is cold, where I am heated. Emotions must be “fascism”, a strong sense of justice is “fascism”.

    Andrew Sullivan’s war is “non-violent”. Dropping bombs on people is “non-violent”. I guess the only “violence” is retaliation against these unfortunetly untouchable man-gods. When does the Iraqi father of children slain from these bombs ever get to fire a ICBM rocket back at these losers sitting in their cool desks?

    I am attacking world-view not religion. Judaism as it is reavealed though its media, through its economy, through its international policy, is purely Machiavellian and Tyrannical in its nature.

    Sullivan is upset with Bush because so far has failed to engage Iran in “nation building”. Which hasn’t been working in Iraq because a couple of “fascists” must be coging up the gears of “creative destruction”.

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