More Signs That Rudy’s No Libertarian

Despite his appeal to some faux-libertarians, there are many warnings as to Rudy Giuliani’s authoritarian streak. Jim Sleeper has some warnings about Rudy Giuliani at TPM Cafe:

The first serious problem is structural and political: A man who fought the inherent limits of his mayoral office as fanatically as Giuliani would construe presidential prerogatives so broadly he’d make George Bush’s notions of ‘unitary’ executive power seem soft.

Even in the 1980s, as an assistant attorney general in the Reagan Justice Department and U.S. Attorney in New York, Giuliani was imperious and overreaching, He made the troubled daughter of a state judge, Hortense Gabel, testify against her mother and former Miss America Bess Meyerson in a failed prosecution charging, among other things, that Meyerson had hired the judge’s daughter to bribe help ‘expedite’ a messy divorce case. The jury was so put off by Giuliani’s tactics that it acquitted all concerned, as the Washington Post’s Ruth Marcus recalled ten years later in assessing Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr’s subpoena of Monica Lewinsky’s mother to testify against her daughter.

At least, as U.S. Attorney, Giuliani served at the pleasure of the President and had to defer to federal judges. Were he the President, U.S. Attorneys would serve at his pleasure — a dangerous arrangement in the wrong hands, we’ve learned — and he’d pick the judges to whom prosecutors defer.

Andrew Sullivan quotes this and comments:

There are many reasons to like Giuliani, but his personal intolerance of any hint of disloyalty, his  contempt for dissent, his corner-cutting executive excesses and long history of cronyism must and surely will be weighed in the equation. Jim Sleeper is no lefty. His concerns are serious ones in a period when the constitution has already been strained to near-breaking point.

Related Post: Sorry Rudy, The Republicans Are Not The Party of Freedom

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21 Comments

  1. 1
    Eric Dondero says:

    The distinguished non-partisan OntheIssues.com rates all the Presidential candidates according to their issue stances from past votes and statements. They go into their positions in precise detail.

    Rudy Giuliani is the single only individual on their survey who gets the distinction of a Libertarian. They rate him as “Moderate Libertarian” at 60/60.

    Other scorers:

    Sam Brownback = Conservative, 80/40
    John McCain = Moderate Cons., 60/40
    Mitt Romney = Populist Cons., 50/40

    Hillary Clinton = Left Liberal, 30/60
    Hussein Obama = Left Liberal, 30/60
    Bill Richardson = Moderate Liberal, 30/50
    John Edwards = Populist Liberal, 20/60

    Now, of all the above, I don’t know about you, but I’d take the guy with the 60/60 score (perhaps also the guy with the 80/40 score as a VP?).

    Clearly Giuliani is the MOST Libertarian of the field.

    Tons of major media outlets tend to agree. No less than the London Times-Herald, Chicago Tribune, Washington Times, NY Sun, National Review Magazine, American Spectator and Insight Magazine have all referred to Giuliani as with a “libertarian” or a “libertarian conservative” in the last few weeks.

    The NY Times even said of Giuliani, he’s a “budget cutting, privatizing Ayn Randian.”

    Truth is, he’s probably not that much of a Radical Libertarian as the Times suggests. But neither is he some sort of “faux libertarian” closet Fascist as some Libertarian Leftys suggest.

    Eric Dondero, Acting Chairman
    Libertarians for Giuliani
    http://www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

  2. 2
    Ron Chusid says:

    The methods used by On The Issues is limited. While it gives some information to compare mainstream candidates it cannot be used to determine if someone is a libertarian. Their definition of libertarian only includes some issues. They also only evaluate some aspects of Giuliani’s views.

    The ratings ignore factors such as that Giuliani is backtracking on his social liberal views. It doesn’t help if he supported abortion rights in the past but promises to appoint judges who will overturn Row v. Wade.

    The ratings do not take into account his horrible record on civil liberties, and his personal authoritarian tendencies.

    Most importantly, his support for Bush’s foreign policy is as far from supporting libertarian principles as one can get. When all aspects are taken into account Giuliani falls as less libertarian than the average Democrat. He ranks fairly close to Hillary Clinton, and as I’ve noted her in the past I’d have a tough time deciding if we were faced with a Clinton versus Giuliani choice.

    The fact that you are a right wing Republican and not libertarian, as well as the flaws in this method of rating candidates, becomes even clearer when we see that you rank Sam Brownback highly. The fact that you could seriously consider support for a ticket with Brownback, or consider him in any way libertarian leaning, proves the contention that you are hardly a libertarian in any meaningful meaning of the word.

  3. 3
    Eric Dondero says:

    Wrong!! Dead wrong!!! His support for Bush’s War on Islamo-Fascism IS PROOF OF HIS LIBERTARIAN CREDENTIALS, SOLID PROOF.

    THE PROPER LIBERTAIRAN POSITION IS TO OPPOSE ISLAMO-FASCISM.

    The Leftist poser Libertarian position is to defacto support Islamo-Fascism by pretending it doesn’t exist, or pooh poohing the threat, or even worse apologizing for Radical Islam.

    You Sir, need to go back and study what libertarianism is all about.

    Libertarians support Legalized Prostitution, Legalized Gambling, Legalized Alcohol, Sexual Freedom, Tolerance for Gays and Lesbians, Freedom of Choice for women, Legalized Adult Pornography, ect…

    All stances that Radical Muslims oppose, and oppose quite viciously.

  4. 4
    Ron Chusid says:

    You continue to prove that you are no libertarian, and that you fail to understand what either libertarians or leftists support.

    There are very few people in this country who support radical Muslims, with liberals among the strongest in opposing them in principle. Bush’s war, however, strengthens the radical Muslims and weakens the United States, which is why most liberals oppose it.

    If you are saying that support for Bush’s war is “proof of his libertarian credentials, solid proof” you are making libertarianism meaningless. By your criteria, Bush, Cheney, Brownback, as well as an authoritarian personality such as Guiliani are libertarians. By this reasoning, libertarianism no longer means anything.

    Bush’s war is countrary to everything libetarianism stands for. It’s sad that you have abandoned any liberarian principles you may have had in falling for his propagada, as well as falling for the propaganda that those who oppose the war support “Islamo-Fascism.”

    You are clearly as right wing as they come, on the opposite side of the specturm from libertarianism, regardless of how much you try to delude others, as well as yourself, by billng yourself as head of a group with “libertarian” in the name.

  5. 5
    Eric Dondero says:

    I’m “no libertarian” ‘eh???

    You obviously have no clue as to who I am. I’ve been called “America’s Greatest Libertarian Political Activist.” Go to my website for articles in major US Newspapers last year about my activism: USA Today, Seattle Post Intelligencer, every newspaper in the State of Montana, ect… (www.mainstreamlibertarian.com Page 5).

    I’ve got a libertarian resume that would make your head spin. Here’s a little taste:

    Libertarian National Committee, 1986/87
    Libertarian candidate for State House, 1986
    Travel Aide, Ron Paul, Libertarian for President, 1987/88
    Delegate, two LP National Conventions, 1987 & 1989
    Chairman, Florida Libertarian Republican Organizing Comm. 1989/90
    Founder, Republican Liberty Caucus, 1990
    First National Chairman & ED, RLC, 1991-95
    Personal Aide, 1976 Libertarian Presidential candidate Roger MacBride, 1991-95
    Campagian Coordinator, Ron Paul for President Exploratory Comm. 1992
    Campaign Coordinator, Ron Paul for Congress, 1996
    Senior Aide, US Congressman Ron Paul, 1997-2003
    Libertarian Republican Political consultant, 2004-2007, including over 10 libertarian petition drives nationwide.

    I would also remind you Sir, that the very Founder of the Modern Libertarian Political Movement, Dana Rohrabacher, is a Pro-War Libertarian United States Congressman.

    Other prominent Libertarians who hold the same views that I do on the War against Islamo-Fascism, include: Jack Wheeler, Neal Boortz, Larry Elder, and PJ O’Rourke.

    It’s the Leftist view on foreign policy that has usurped our Libertarian movement. Ayn Rand, Barry Goldwater, Hayek and Milton Friedman were all PRO-DEFENSE.

    We are winning our movement back to it’s original AND CORRECT LIBERTARIAN POSITION of protecting our country from foreign forces who wish to destroy us.

    Eric Dondero, Acting Chairman
    Libertarian Defense Caucus
    http://www.libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com

  6. 6
    Eric Dondero says:

    Okay Ron, if “leftists and leftist libertarians” oppose Radical Islam as you imply above, tell us please what it is you are doing to stop the Crazed Muslim Radicals?

    Diplomacy? You think that will work?

    Europe is experiencing a Tidal Wave of Radical Islam sweeping their Nations. In Amsterdam, they shot and killed Theo van Gogh in cold blood right on the streets in public view. Then they killed Pim Fortuyn.

    In Copenhagen the Radical Muslims are rioting in the streets against Free Speech. In Paris they are outlawing topless sunbathing due to Muslim pressure, and Muslim Youth are rioting in the streets burning vehicles and causing mayhem.

    In southern France, Italy and Spain, officials are cowtowing to Muslim demands for self-rule conclaves governed by Sharia Law in many towns.

    What is it that you and your liberal pals are doing to stop this from coming to the United States?

    Here in the US they’re already here!!! Just 3 weeks ago a Crazed Muslim Gunman shouting “Allah Ahu-Akbar” gunned down 10 people in a Salt Lake City shopping mall. Another crazed Muslim drove his stolen cab SUV over two college kids in Nashville, shouting “Hitler was right!”

    In Minneapolis, the Muslim Cabbies who have a monopoly are refusing service to any Americans carrying alchohol (even wine!!!), blind people, people with dogs, AND GAYS AND LESBIANS!!!

    In West Philadelphia, Muslims are protesting to keep out Liquor stores in their neighborhoods and seeking to get established stores thrown out.

    So, tell me Mr. Liberal. Fine, you don’t like the War in Iraq. You don’t think that’s the proper way to fight Radical Islam. Okay, then tell me!!! What is the proper way to fight these America-hating jerks? What are you doing to stop the spread of Radical Islam, worldwide and here in America?

    Oh, one more breaking story… Just this morning we’re learing of Massive Protests in Manilla by Muslims wanting to chop off the head of a prominent journalist who has criticized Islam. They are literally carrying banners which read, “Allow Beheadings in the Phillipines for Critics of Islam.”

  7. 7
    Ron Chusid says:

    Eric,

    Nobody is saying that diplomacy alone is the answer.

    Even conservatives such as George Will have admitted that liberals like Kerry have turned out to be right on fighting terrorism.

    Republicans have done virtually nothing effective, and have made the problem worse. Only Democrats have offered meaningful plans to fight terrorism.

    For your supposed libertarian credential you cite Republican groups and you list far right wing conservatives as libertarians. No wonder libertarians dismiss you as someone who has badly damaged the libertarian name by confusing conservativism with libertarianism.

    As I said before, you are no libertarian no matter how much you try to steal the label.

  8. 8
    Eric Dondero says:

    Umm, okay, tell me how it is that I’m not a libertarian, since I support:

    Legalized Prostitution, Gambling, Pro-Choice, Adult Pornography, Lowering of Seat Belt Laws, Repeal of Seat Belt Laws, Gun Owner’s Rights, Abolishing the IRS, Massive spending cuts across the Board, Tuition Tax credits for Education, Privatization of Social Security, abolishing Medicare/Medicaid, and Opposition to the Military Draft?

    So, where’s the lapse in my libertarianism above?

  9. 9
    Eric Dondero says:

    Why I ain’t no G-damned Conservative:

    Conservatives are Pro-Life. They want to outlaw abortion. They also tend to be Religious Rightists who want to force Creationism being taught in our public schools.

    You accuse me of being a “Right-wing Conservative” above. LOL. I’ve been battling Conservatives all my life.

    I’m a Punk Rocker, Alternative Lifestyles, morals of a Sailor (I was a Sailor for 4 years), drinking, swearing, lover of women all over the world.

    Hardly a “Right wing Conservative” as you imply above.

  10. 10
    Ron Chusid says:

    Eric,

    You hold some libertarian positions and other positions which are quite contrary to libertarianism, therefore you are not a libertarian.

    There are a wide variety of types of conservatives. Some hold the views which you list in your last reply and others, such as you, do not.

  11. 11
    Eric Dondero says:

    Umm, excuse me Mr. Chusid, I ain’t never seen you out there on the petitioning trail with a clipboard in your hand for the Libertarian Party. I’ve collected tens of thousands of signatures for Libertarian causes in the last 22 years, including 10,000 alone last year in Montana for Property Rights, and 4,000 in 2004 for Libertarian Party ballot access. I’ve been called “America’s Number One Libertarian Political Activist.”

    How dare a Newbie, Computer Geek like you insinuate that I’m no Libertarian.

    When I joined the Libertarian Party back in 1985 there was a very strong Pro-Defense faction in the LP. It was called the Libertarian Defense Caucus.

    Dana Rohrabacher, Jack Wheeler, even Bob Poole were Pro-Defense Libertarians back in the 1980s.

    It’s only recently, where Libertarian history has been so whitewashed by Leftwing Libertarian propaganda that people think the non-interventionism, i.e. gilie man, wussy-ism is somehow the “correct” Libertarian position.

    It is CLEARLY NOT!

    Dana Rohrabacher is the Founder of the Libertarian Movement. This is an undisputed historical fact. Even Leftist Libertarians like Thomas Knapp admit this.

    Rohrabacher was and is to this day PRO-DEFENSE!!!

    Four out of Five 1960s Top Libertarian Leaders were also Pro-Defense (against the Communism of the time): Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, Rohbacher and Barry Goldwater. It was only Rothbard – arguably an Anarchist and not a Libertarian at all – who was Anti-Defense.

    You sound grossly ignorant of Libertarian Movement history. But why should anyone be surprised. You’re a poser. Never lifted a finger to help the Libertarian Movement out. You’re just some guy banging away at the computer keyboard. You wouldn’t know a clipboard if it smacked you upside the head.

    Eric Dondero, Founder
    Republican Liberty Caucus,
    Fmr. Libertarian National Committeeman
    1988 Ron Paul for President Travel Aide
    1996 Ron Paul for Congress Campaign Coordinator
    Fmr. Senior Aide, US Congressman Ron Paul, 1997-2003
    Current, Federal Appointee Libertarian Officeholer

  12. 12
    Ron Chusid says:

    Eric,

    “Newbie, Computer Geek.”

    You don’t know a thing about me, so I won’t waste my time responding to how you wish to describe me. I’m afraid your insults just don’t mean a thing to me. It is hard to feel insulted by someone who is widely thought of as a laughing stock such as yourself. However, I will note that when you say you joined the Libertarian Party back in 1985 you are quite a newby compared to me! I was around before there were either computers (and computer geeks) or a libertarian party. In contrast, to a comparative newby such as you, I was advising against the formation of the Libertarian Party well before 1985, predicting how it would degrade libertarian principles. At least they are not as bad as groups such as yours which promote Republican principles while stealing the libertarian name.

    Unlike you, I don’t chose to spend my time with the type of BS self-promotion you engage in. Just recently your name came up with an editor of Reason who was laughing about the way you tried to get them to do a story on you and your “achievements.”

    The manner in which you claim that Dana Rohrabacher is the Founder of the Libertarian Movement is a running joke on libertarian boards. Rohrabacher is a conservative Republican, not a libertarian. The fact that you consider him the Founder of your movement is further proof that you are no libertarian. The fact that you only date the libertarian movement to Rohrabacher also shows you know nothing of its history.

    While you consider Rohrabacher the Founder of the Libertarian Movement you say that Murray Rothbard is “not a Libertarian at all.” Rothbard is widely considered as one of the leading figures of late 20th century libertarianism, and was often even referred to as Mr. Libertarian. And you claim I’m “grossly ignorant of Libertarian Movement history.”

    Of course Rothbard was not a libertarian if you are one as the two of you follow totally different belief systems. If we go by conventional nomenclature rather than yours, Rothbard was the libertarian while you are the conservative.

    Being “pro-defense” has nothing to do with Republican foreign policy. Republican foreign policy promotes perpetual warfare but does nothing to make us more secure or to effectively fight Islamic fundamentalism. The manner in which you promote the warfare state is the ultimate evidence that you have no understanding of libertarianism. Your accetance of Republican foreign polciy fiascos further shows that you have no understanding of what it really takes to defend this country and fight terrorism.

    You can further degrade yourself by resorting to names like “girlie man” and “wussy-ism” but it is your guy who ignored all the warnings about 9/11, and it is your guy who allowed bin Laden to escape at Tora Bora despite his “manly” claims that he would get bin Laden dead or alive.

  13. 13
    Ron Chusid says:

    Eric,

    You erroniously claim that support for Bush’s foreign policy is “pro-defense” and then list many people who you call “pro-defense” implying that they would agree with you on the war. Most of they would not. For example:

    “What’s really killed the Republican Party isn’t spending. It’s Iraq. As it happens, I was opposed to going into Iraq from the beginning. I think it was a mistake, for the simple reason that I do not believe the United States of America ought to be involved in aggression. ”
    Milton Friedman

  14. 14
    Eric Dondero says:

    Degrade myself?? LOL.

    I will call you a girlie man, and a wuss.

    Are you or are you not a Veteran of the US Armed Forces?

    If you are a Vet, my sincerest apologies, and I will stand in the public square with egg on my face.

    I strongly suspect that you are not.

    Point of Fact: Military Guys and Military Veterans have every right to call anyone they want who has never served in the Military a girly man, wuss or whatever.

    And I would thank you Sir, to thank me for my service to my country.

    Eric Dondero, 6-year honorably dischared Veteran, United States Navy. 1981-85. 4 years Sea Duty. 3 Medals, including Expeditionary for service in a War Zone. USS Kittyhawk (CV-63 Aircraft Carrier) & US Luce (DDG-38 Guided Missile Destroyer).

  15. 15
    Ron Chusid says:

    Eric, this fits in well with your writings elsewhere arging that military veterans have the right to beat anyone who burns the flag without legal repercusions. I note that you are engaging in similar fights on many libertarian blogs, where you call everyone who disagrees with you a wuss or a girlie man. Real men have no need to resort to such slurs.

    Not only are you not a libertarian and not a real man, but you are a disgrace to your country and a disgrace to the United States Armed Forces. You have no concept of what it means to be an American or to defend your country. You should do the honorable thing and stop disgracing the armed forces and return all the medals you have received. You certainly do not deserve them if this is your view of defending the country.

  16. 16
    Eric Dondero says:

    I dare say, if you took a poll of Military guys on whether or not they should have the right to beat up Leftist scum Flag Burners, 99% of them would agree with me.

    And you didn’t answer my question. Are you or are you not a Veteran? Did you ever serve?

  17. 17
    Ron Chusid says:

    Eric,

    But what difference does it make? Do you believe that only people who were in the military have rights? Some “libertarian” you are! So your “libertarian” utopia consists of having goons who beat up people you don’t agree with, especially since you call everyone who isn’t on the far right like you a leftist. You’re even more anti-libertarian than the average conservative.

    I did receive a comment from a libertarian veteran who saw your comment above and doesn’t agree with your view:

    >> Ron,
    >>
    >> I *AM* an honorably discharged former member of the US Navy, and I
    >> think that if he has to resort to such “credential flashing” and
    >> name-calling, then even he thinks that his arguments have no
    >> substance. In addition, hanging 30 miles off the coast on an aircraft
    >> carrier is not exactly the same as walking the streets of Fallujah and
    >> Mosul, where a friend of mine who was in the Army was blown to pieces.
    >> So he can get stuffed, and I would tell him that criticizing the war
    >> is the single best thing that you can do if you care about the troops.
    >> I want them out of there yesterday.

  18. 18
    Eric Dondero says:

    Umm, I would think that if the guy felt so strongly about his views, he would have included his name.

    Tell you what, have him call me and I’ll set him straight.

    Cell 979-799-7077

  19. 19
    Ron Chusid says:

    He did sign his name. However as this was a communication not specifically sent for posting here I didn’t want to post his name. I never asked him whether he cared if his name was posted but would not do so without obtaining someone’s ok.

    On the other hand, if you are so foolish as to post your own cell phone number on line that’s your business. (Realistically I doubt hardly anyone will see a comment to a post from two weeks ago.)

  20. 20
    Eric Dondero says:

    My phone number is there for all to see.

    I’m even willing to meet with Assholetarians who oppose the War on Islamo-Fascism in person. Anywhere. Anytime.

    Bring it on Baby!!!

    You included Chisud.

  21. 21
    Ron Chusid says:

    Eric,

    You might be totally misinformed, and incapable of sustaining a coherent argument, but at least we can count on you for a daily laugh.

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